Belatedly I write to commemorate.
PAKISTAN- The land of the pure...
Sista asked me about my thoughts on her commemorative post...I could not divulge the sentiments that her post generated without finding myself so far in disagreement with her that it would be useless to even comment.
I am a believer and an idealist. I am someone who sees the silver lining no matter what. I make lemonade when life gives me lemons. I cannot say what Jinnah was thinking or who he was. I did not know him. I do, however, know of him.
He was man I admire. He was a man true to himself. Sista believes he could never be who/what he wanted to be... I disagree. To achieve greatness you have to follow your heart- fearlessly. Only those who are themselves and fearlessly so, are truly great. Jinnah was great in my humble opinion. He accomplished what very few can. And behind greatness lies a PASSION. It is the driving force. That and belief... faith and discipline. Jinnah demonstrated all...
She claimed he was unhappy. I cannot say either way. I did not know him.
Secularism/Islamism/Faith.... Why play on words? To generate debate and create rifts is easy... It is the inspiring of Unity that is a challenge. Anyone can throw in a controversy, sprinkle on some fancy pseudo-intellectual political debate and bash most anything to pieces, all from the relative safety and comfort of a drawing room (or blog).
Where is the nobility in that?
I LOVE the land that my parents originate from. I admire the man who made that country possible. Who cares whether or not Jinnah "left us all a legacy of ambiguity on what he wanted Pakistan to be"....
The more important question to ME is what do WE want it to be. It is pitiful to sit halfway across the world and nit pick about it.... what, I ask have YOU done about it?
To criticize and generate criticism is simple... and useless unless you also generate an alternative solution ... otherwise it is mere whining. I despise whining. I seek to solve problems, not sit back and point them out only.
It is the PASSION of UNITY that is difficult to rustle up.
So dear people... I sit halfway across the world from you- it is not for me to criticize the conception of that country or to judge the motives and person-hood of its founders...
I have a hope for a land that was created by the blood of people who believed. In honor and respect of that sacrifice I stand at attention to a flag. I believe in my creator in whose name the nation came to be. I have felt HIS presence much too often to doubt.
Pakistan is an IDENTITY. It is YOUR IDENTITY. If you don't stand up for it.... who will? If YOU don't fight for it, who will? If YOU don't respect it, who will? If YOU don't care, who will?
My dear people- this country, this land, this idea.... this is YOU. Remove yourselves from the petty squabbles of secularism, ambiguity, Jinnah's religiosity... and most of all nit picking.
Rise above mere criticism. Rise above pettiness. Find solutions instead. Let there be a purpose to all the debate, otherwise it is all talk and talk is cheap.
Rise and make of yourselves the best YOU you can be.
That is what Pakistan means to me.
Thoughts?
41 comments:
Excellent, you hit the nail right on its head. I'm not even going to read what your friend wrote; there's too much vitriol about Pakistan online already.
By the way, I HIGHLY recommend that you read Stanley Wolpert's "Jinnah of Pakistan." Apparently Zia the great had it banned, and it is out of print here, so it's only available in university libraries. Since I became a bit mature, I always assumed that Jinnah's image was simply too good to be true; after all, our society is so skilled at overlooking faults of people we want to admire. I feel that this does a disservice to the person and to others who are to be inspired.
I can tell you that my respect for Jinnah jumped a hundred-fold when I read that book and found out the real story, from an unbiased historian (Wolpert's a professor in USC and was at Berkeley). Also read Aitzaz Ahsan's Indus Valley Saga; a magnificent piece of work.
My personal hope for Pakistan is quite simple: it is to live to see the day when the lines outside our embassies are several hundred feet long. Can't you tell that I am an eternal optimist as well; people of faith tend to have that problem :).
Okay, I better stop myself. I leave you with this stanza I came across online today:
"…Gar âj tujhse judâ hain to kal bâham hon ge,
Ye rât-bhar ki judâi to koi bât nahin,
Gar âj auj pe hai tâlé raqib to kya?
Ye châr din ki khudâi to koi bât nahin,
Jo tujhse ehd'o vafâ ustuvâr rakhte hain,
Ilâjé gardishé leil'o nehâr rakhte hain."
- F. A. Faiz
I'll have to get Wolpert's book.
Mouse- my urdu isn't that great. i studied salees urdu in O'Levels... :S
Could you please explain the verse to me...
You completely missed my point (its OK! Had to happen sometime!)
First up it was not a *commemorative* post - more like a train of thought thing.
No way was I nit picking. It is an honest and real pain and conflict that I feel as a Pakistani as regards its raison d'etre and conception.
Its not even funny how many patriotic songs I know *verbatim* and actually really *sing* on a fairly regular basis here in Canada and how emotional I get!
My problem is that even as my love for Pakistan is rooted in me, I cannot, for the life of me, sit back and not hurt at the Talibanisation of my country. I lived and matured through the Zia era...I know the kind of harm he did!
The problem that ails Pakistan harkens back to its inception.
I too admire Jinnah (I thought that was obvious). I just wish he had outright declared the country secular in its constitution as he SO OBVIOUSLY wanted to. It would still have been false logic but at least we would not be fighting which way to go essentially.
Secularism, Islamism are not mere words. If emotion (real, genuine gutwrenching patriotic emotion) was the sole criteria for "right" then both the combatants in any war would be wholly completely right!
Safety? I dont feel *safe*/removed from nationalistic pain! Pseudo? pshaw! Humble?...does not equate mindless. Whining? I dont whine. Solution - lets find the balls to be this or that. Completely Islamic Sharia driven state or a Secular state that is predominantly muslim but makes no bones about its secularism. I know which option I'd prefer but in my *not-so-humble* opinion if ever Pakistan is to get out of these self-defeating cycles of 'enlightened modernity' and Islam' we have to decide... and either decision would be more *honest* as opposed to the hypocrisy that has come to be synonymous with being Pakistani. (mousy, after saying he would not, came over and read my post - I know his IP - Ta da! hypocrisy?)
And I do care what my country is about, what it means, because it will ALWAYS ALWAYS be my identity.
sis darling...
You asked for thoughts... I gave them. would you rather I not?
I did not miss your point- i just disagreed with it and gave my point of view on it... is that so wrong?
your response is combative and condescending.
is the motive here to one-up me?
we can agree to disagree... and that too without insulting the other. i am certainly not mindless. and more to the point i have made not one personal attack on you, which is specifically why i did NOT comment on your post (that would have been personal...)
I simply posted my opinion and point of view....
The reason I said you missed my point is not that that you disagree with me but because your argument focuses on love for Pakistan (point missed surely??)
You did not voice an opinion on whether there was indeed a dichotomy in Pakistan being founded thusly on the grounds that it was. You merely present the view that any critisicm of Pakistan and Jinnah is pointless nitpicking, mischief-mongering and detracts from one's patriotism.
The friendly one-upmanship between us notwithstanding (all good all good! :) my motive was to see if you would counter or expand the ethical/logical argument....and hey! I would never have asked for thoughts if I thought you mindless! Haha!
Darling... of course you made a personal attack on me by ascribing motives and condeming those motives!(pseudo intellectual homeland bashing from the safety of a blog)
I am all for attacks and counter attacks though. Respect is not agreement at all cost. (and what diff does it make where you counter my post, how is that relevant?)
Alas! your opinion will never be humble Shahnaz....you are far too passionate for that!....Love that...Love ya! ....later...
Loyalty is to the place you live and earn your bread from. That becomes your home. I was born in Kenya but now home is Canada. My loyalty , my love , my everything is for Canada This is home. Praising a place you left to live elsewhere seems strange.
sis
so you wanna rumble....
here goes
> the grounds that Pakistan was founded on-
what is the benefit of debating that. what impact does that have on how the problem is to be solved. did you offer a solution...hardly.... why cry over spilt milk. what's done is in the PAST. Fix the present and the future. DID you offer any suggestion for that? hindsight is 20/20 and can be shredded as such. it is present vision that is a challenge. so in some 30 odd years you will be commenting on what went wrong in Pakistan in 2008-after the event. i say try and fix 2008 now instead.
you and I share different perspectives on life. i choose to embrace my life and live it in the now without compromising... hence my life choices. bad marriage- end it make life better for me now. in 20 years that decision may seem like it wasn't the best (or not?? who knows)because all the evidence either way will be there to pick apart. but in the moment that is the best choice to be made given the information that is currently available.
Pakistan was created the same way. In hindsight we see what went wrong where. But given the situation and the circumstances what happened, happened. so why
NITPICK about the past. that is what dwelling on the past is nitpicking.... since you did not point out a solution it wasn't really "learning from the past mistakes" now was it????"
>patriotism
and no one said anything about your patriotism. you offered that up yourself... in quoting the bard may i say,
"me thinks the lady doth protest too much..." ??? (eye brow raise)
>mindless
and i quote, "humble is not mindless..."
in your enthusiasm your sarcasm reeks of disdain for me in that statement....
>motives
the "you" in my post is ascribed to my readers and not you specifically. you are referred to as "sista" and "she" and for the record you did ascribe happiness, contentment (or lack thereof) to JInnah- did i miss something there... how do you know? how can anyone know know what went on inside the man's head. all we can do is hypothesize... so seriously... i make a living focusing on people and their inside emotions- and no one knows what an other's insides look like.
and for the record respect is "not getting personal"... but being able to voice an opinion without undermining the other. "you missed my point" is quite an undermining assumption.... how do you know i missed the point? do you claim inner knowledge to mind's working?
after the first few paragraphs, my post stopped referring to you entirely and presented a completely different outlook on the entire issue... mine...
you asked for thoughts, remember....
NOT my take on the dichotomy presented on your post. i "think" about life very differently than you... i make lemonade with my lemons. i do not analyze how the lemon came to be unless there is something to be learned/gained/changed...(it is a solution focused outlook, so sue me!) from that knowledge.... your post presented Pakistan as the proverbial "lemon" and my thought on your post was, make lemonade!
Peace Out...
(remember i once told you... do you want me to speak honestly or do you want me to say what you want to hear, i can do both.... i always ask first.)
(you wanted a rumble-i rumbled)
Now let's get back to other stuff. this issue has been focused on enough. it's in the past. my present and my future await... and so do yours. lets make new rumbles...
hugs darling
love ya.
anonymous
and what if you earn your bread from and live in many countries?
i was born in uganda, and live in three countries and earn my bread from three countries... see it isn't so strange then is it, to love three places.
i haven't left any country. i am suspended in three...
i feel you when you say canada is home... but then this is what i feel about e. africa
http://shahnazness.blogspot.com/2007/07/i-have-song-of-africa.html
peace and thanks for visiting. you comments are much apprciated...
I have to agree with Shahnaz rather than sista here... for a few things...
most importantly... Pakistan gives us an identity... it gives us a chance to be oruselves... it gives us a chance which we cannot really imagine livin in india... or any other country... it is a chance that is often taken for granted i am afraid... sadly !!!
secondly... the biggest tragedy we are faced wwith is the simple fact that our history books have been fabricated with lies and deceits... even worse is the fact that last 60 odd years do give us facilities like libraries of newspapers... things we can go through to actually find out the real... a lot of effort required but still...
is Jinnah too perfect ? well... no... growing up I have learnt a few things... we have to accept the people we love and admire as humans... they make mistakes... they do all these things which they are not proud of... but they do... yet... its the great deeds that should b looked at... our nation has in its nature to naturally look for the bad points... an easy example is... the only nobel prize winner we have is not talked much about because he is of the Ahmedi lot(or religion... dependin on your theory.. i use the word lot to be politically correct in a casual manner...)
sadly i can go on and on.. but one thing is for sure... the purpose of pakistan is misunderstood to a huge point... and thats our biggest tragedy !!!
Anonymous from Canada...hats off! If one deliberately leaves a place to live somewhere else.....absolutely! Your first loyalty should be to the host country. I make no bones about it. I do love Pakistan and will always do so, it being a part of me and my past, but I maintain quite openly that in any direct conflict I am ethically and morally committed to Canada. I love and sing O'Canada with absolute national pride and have blogged about it previously...
....cannot, cannot STAND the two-faced hypocrisy of maligning the country you live in, in misplaced and hypocritical defense of the one you purposely chose to leave for a "better life"
Shahnaz, I can understand, coming from a globe trotting background not necessarily motivated by choosing to live here or there....but in general ....American Pakistanis....sooooo full of such bull...GAH!
do i hear a yell of abcd here... lol
being in uk.. i hav met and know a lot of british born pakis... some are quite arryte... others quite arsy...
its a mixed plate sista jee... !
i guess i have come here quite late..A LOT has been said.
we have all the reason to celebrate and not celebrate our independence..entirely on us. but whats more important is that since we have a country we can call our own, lets accept our identity, no matter how punctured it is right now.
things of the past are done with, future is a bit blur..not in our hands,,,present well we are struggling...
lets not ask things which others are already aiming at to dent and weaken the only thing we have..this land.
i am amazed at my change of emotions for this land since a couple of years...
@sista
"I cannot, for the life of me, sit back and not hurt at the Talibanisation of my country."
Using buzz-words and stale, manufactured fodder, combined with your petty, misdirected attacks might give you some sick sense of personal satisfaction, but ultimately, these opinions have no worth. Keep it up sista, and soon, you too, will join Irshad Manji in the gutter. I would write a book if I were in your place: why not make a few million dollars while you're at it.
And Talibanization? The last time I checked, hordes of men and women, young and old came out to vote for a dead woman, who represented the most liberal party in the country. This "talibanized" sector you spoke of garnered a resounding 2% of the electorate.
Also, please stop kidding yourself into thinking that these skirmishes, bombs, etc are about religion. They are entirely political. An old professor of mine once said that fields such as "computer science" and "social science" have the word "science" in them, because this packaging makes it easier for universities to integrate such topics into their curricula. If you think that Muslims are in support of the suicide attacks against ordinary Pakistanis, then you should really stop watching Fox.
Also, no one is expecting you to adopt an anti-Canadian attitude. If you feel more at home in Canada, then in Pakistan, good for you; to each her own. But don't expect us to stand idly by when you take cheap shots at something that is important to us.
My relationship with Pakistan is somewhat like that of an adult with his parent. Sure, it wasn't as affluent, smart, giving, and glamorous as the other parents; but it stuck by me, and likewise, I'm going to stick by it, come hell or high water.
Shahnaz, I suggest you reject this comment, since it might needlessly cause your blog to become a political hotspot, and might even deter you from blogging at all.
I wish Jinnah had just stayed in the congress party and we wouldn't have been in this big mess of a country! Whenever I have to travel abroad, I'm ashamed to show my Pakistani passport. That's all that this place has gotten me: shame... We don't get to choose which country we are born in. If I were the given the choice to choose of all the 200+ countries, this would have been among the last places on the planet...
You're right anonymous, reading comments like yours really does make me feel _ashamed_ that I share my country of birth with people like yourself.
Jinnah should never have left the Congress party; he should have simply become the two-faced Gandhi's stooge instead, like Maulana Azad became. We would all be living in the great un-divided India, we would have a beautiful Hindu national anthem, and we could have perpetuated the glorious caste system. That's right, I wish I were an Indian Muslim; seems like the ones in Gujarat are doing quite well.
What i think about my country doesn't depend on what Jinnah was,or what he had in mind.We cannot reverse the clock backward 61 years,and all that i know,or care to know about Jinnah is that he was a selfless person.Whether he wanted a secular/Islamic state he was sincere in his struggle,and that is what made him a leader despite his western attire.
The Pakistan we have now isn't what our ancestors wanted,but despite all the vitriol about Pakistan,i feel myself content with all my heart,because we Pakistanis have been through the worse scenarios any country has ever faced,yet still survived it.Damaged,battered,hopeless YES.
But we have survived 61 years,and that gives me the reason to believe that this country is in God's own hands,and we have become somehow the most resilient people on the earth.
Criticism from abroad isn't unusual,we have become quite used to that,but all that i ask is that before you criticize the swimmer,better jump into the storm and feel what we are facing and going through.
I may be completely missing the point here,because i (like the most of Pakistanis) don't understand what Secularism and Talibanization really stand for,the definitions have become to vague for us.
But what i see in my country is that people still haven't lost hope.What i see is that youngsters still stand up in buses to offer their seats to the elders.What i see is that people still respect and revere there country's flag,still they care for the women.
That may not be enough,but still i have my honour and self respect here.
My comment is not directed to anyone or anything,i just felt like sharing my feelings on the 61 Birthday of my motherland.
now dat was a bit harsh... !
having spent most of my life in pakistan... and now movin abroad... i can say yes i m not particularly proud of the condition my country is in at the mo... but at least i would never say i am ashamed of it ... !!!
at a few moments i have gone a bit defensive when people hav mentioned the state of politics and all dat... but thats what you do ... you tell em the truth... yes there r bombs going off and political turmoil... but its still much better than at least a 100 of those 200 odd nations !!!
and people who think they wud rather b part of india ryte now... i m gonna use the good ol american phrase here... love it or leave it man !!! jus pack your bags and migrate... and lets see how much fun you hav across the border !
honestly, and i would never say this without being anonymous to my pakistani bretheren, but we should never have separated from india/hindus. look how india has risen, and look at their diversity. i'm so tired of this mullah culture, in india they have hindus, parsis, christians, muslims, etc... life seems more interesting there. i wish we never separated.
It was a nice post but 'nice' is all you are Shahnaz... i applaud sista for havin a head full of self (though i never agree with a word she wrote but thts not the point).
but you S you have a constant urge to make people like u... mayb coz you were married so young (young girls develop low self esteem issues), but you are not nearly half a woman as the one portrayed in ABC or wht these oggling 20 something guys tht visit ur blog think. You are 30 yrs yeah very hard to believe... grow up.... stop being needy and please for christ sake stop being the show off that you are... We get it you are a rich divorcee.. ohh and sorry i have nothing to comment abt the post.. go cry a river :) Zaijian!!
"F R E E D O M"
We as a "Pakistani" including myself, this is our greatest time pass criticizing our country, our system, and our people
And our leaders, and so on but, one of my friend pointing my attention to this simple fact that,
What we Pakistani love to do, express our views openly and freely with out any fear, is because of this freedom which JINNAH provide us.
"Freedom" to talk about any thing, anything you like, any thing you feel, even in many Muslim countries people don’t have this luxury. You agree with me that even here (USA), we have to think before commenting on something, we have to see what our colleague will think, how they will judge us based on our beliefs and remarks.
Take Indian Muslims, who claim that they are free but even they also don’t have this luxury to express, how they feel about their country, and its corrupt system, how they feel about the racism they face every day in all walks of life. Even a small remark against there country or its people make them "Traitors".
But we Pakistani are free no one judge us in "Pakistan", we don’t fear that someone will label us traitor based on our remarks.
I don’t care whether what kind of person or Muslim he is; even I don’t care if he is even a Muslim or not.
I See what he give us, and I say we must give him this ONE BIG CREDIT that he give us "FREEDOM"
But sometime we don’t appreciate that.....no other place in this whole universe can give us that feeling of a Home… a place where you don’t have to introduce your self.
Thanks
Mr. Muhammad Ali Jinnah
"F R E E D O M"
We as a "Pakistani" including myself, this is our greatest time pass criticizing our country, our system, and our people
And our leaders, and so on but, one of my friend pointing my attention to this simple fact that,
What we Pakistani love to do, express our views openly and freely with out any fear, is because of this freedom which JINNAH provide us.
"Freedom" to talk about any thing, anything you like, any thing you feel, even in many Muslim countries people don’t have this luxury. You agree with me that even here (USA), we have to think before commenting on something, we have to see what our colleague will think, how they will judge us based on our beliefs and remarks.
Take Indian Muslims, who claim that they are free but even they also don’t have this luxury to express, how they feel about their country, and its corrupt system, how they feel about the racism they face every day in all walks of life. Even a small remark against there country or its people make them "Traitors".
But we Pakistani are free no one judge us in "Pakistan", we don’t fear that someone will label us traitor based on our remarks.
I don’t care whether what kind of person or Muslim he is; even I don’t care if he is even a Muslim or not.
I See what he give us, and I say we must give him this ONE BIG CREIDT that he give us "FREEDOM"
But sometime we don’t appreciate that.....no other place in this whole universe can give us that feeling of a Home… a place where you don’t have to introduce your self.
Thanks
Mr. Muhammad Ali Jinnah
You took the words right out of my mouth! Even the style of saying it is just like mine. I was gonna post a blog entry about this, but procrastination got the best of me and I started reading different blogs, and when I read this I was like woah. Did I already post it but don't remmeber cuz of my short-term memory?
hehe.
"In the name of the Land of pure"
The forest of yellow leaves
which is my country
The congregation of pain
which is my country
A POEM for the joyless lives of clerks
For worm-eaten hearts and tongues
For postmen and horse-cab drivers
For railway drivers
For those simple, vital souls
who work in factories
For those sorrowing mothers
Whose childern sob in the night
Deprived of sleep, cannot cope
Can't cofide their grief
Who dare not speak of their inner pain
Whom we can neither comfort nor console
Faiz Ahmed Faiz
Jinnah was a well-dressed guy. Probably, the best dressed guy on the sub-continent in the early 20th century. I wonder where he got his suits from.
Mr. Gandhi, on the other hand, had no sense of fashion. I don't hold it against him, since he did soo much for freedom, but I mean, Come On! When you are going up against Jinnah and them other boys from England, you should wear something better than 2 white pieces of cloth. No wonder why Nehru got lucky with Mountbatten's wife; He had better clothes than Gandhi.
let me try and translate it for you.
urdu
"…Gar âj tujhse judâ hain to kal bâham hon ge,
Ye rât-bhar ki judâi to koi bât nahin,
english:
"so what If I am not with you today? I will be with you tomorrow, and this night of us being apart is no big deal"
urdu:
Gar âj auj pe hai tâlé raqib to kya?
Ye châr din ki khudâi to koi bât nahin,
english:
so what if your rival is flying high today? ( rival meaning the person trying to steal your man or woman)
this world is gonna last 4 days, and it is not a big deal at all.
urdu:
Jo tujhse ehd'o vafâ ustuvâr rakhte hain,
Ilâjé gardishé leil'o nehâr rakhte hain."
english: whoever is loyal and faithful to you, controls days and nights cycle.
I think I am pretty close.
if you live in America and pay taxes here, THIS is your country. not the one where you were born, not the one where you lived before, but the one where you live NOW and where you pay taxes.
there is no such thing as american pakistani. its either american, or pakistani. sure, there is no problem showing love for Pakistan or what have you, but, like sista said, the host country comes first.
and instead of trying to one up each other, do something about trying to fix Pakistan. sitting here blogging about it wont do jack. join Imran Khan or people like him who are actually doing something, like building hospitals and universities.
like i said, Jinnah was a well dressed guy. having said that, he died 60 years ago. forget about what he did. even if he was alive today, he wouldn't sit around, contemplating and blogging philosophical ideas about Pakistan. Instead, he would put on his suit, or buy Armani's, and work towards making that country better.
The tearful eye, the noisy spirit
are not enough
The accusaion of hidden love is not enough
Let's go today to the bazaar in chains
Let's go with hands waving, intoxicated, dancing
Let's go with dust on our heads, blood on our sleeves
Lets go to the city our love lives in
Everyone is watching
The city's ruler, the general populace
The unhappy morning,
the day with no purpose
The arrow of accusation
the stone of abuse
Who else beside us is their intimate friend?
Who now in our beloved's city is still pure?
Who now is worthy of the executioner's hand?
Pick up the burden of the head
let us go, heartbroken ones.
We are the ones who have to be murdered again, my friends
As you posted your post as Anonymous I also prefer not to show my Id.
"Anonymous said...
It was a nice post but 'nice' is all you are Shahnaz... i applaud sista..."
I am taking to you,As you posted your post as Anonymous I also prefer not to show my Id.
Its about "Pakistan" and we are discussing...
We can criticize you but that will not solve the problem. just like to say,
We all have weakness, and thing we don't like to discuss with anyone and Allah knows all that, how do you feel if he reveal.. our personal issues and problem just like you did, giving you a thought If you can understand.
May be today you are strong, Cleaver, but think what happen when you got weak, when you are hurt, if someone treat you same as you are treating other people today how do you feel.
Don't fear from People, always fear from Allah, because he is the strongest and knows everything.
tc
Pakistan is our identity, like American Indian have there's, so loosing your identity means loosing everything, that's what history told us.
On the other hand this is also true that we all need to be loyal to the state we are living in, which sworn to protect us and our kids.
doesn't matter if that place is Pakistan, India, USA or Canada.
No such thing as American Indian either. you are either American, or Indian. Native American is the correct term for, well, Native Americans.
and since all this gets complicated, the term should simply be "American"
Remember...your country is where you pay taxes.
@The various anoymous/s
please provide some sort of a moniker to distinguish which posts are from the same entity...
in future anonymous posts will not be published.
it is simply tedious to kep track of who said what when there are several "anonymous" posts...
have the balls to provide a name even if it is a fake name...
People who have balls don't provide fake names.
So, the name is Armin. No last names.
following is the list of MM/DD/YYYY and hh:mm of my posts as Anonymous:
August 22, 2008 6:45 PM
August 22, 2008 6:50 PM
August 22, 2008 7:15 PM
August 22, 2008 9:52 PM
August 25, 2008 9:13 PM
I hope this solves your problem.
Have fun!
Ahmed Faraz is no more:
"The land of pure" has lost a pure devout son.
August of surprises:
I wonder how many more months of August in coming years provide more surprises for Pakistan.
Musharraf resigns...
Ahmed Faraz departs...
OMG... so much malice & spite. Y cant we look at the good things in a person instead of highlighting the oddities. One of the reasons our nation is this way cos ppl wish it never existed.
Jinnah was human, does it matter what his personal life was like? if u look at his health in the pre- pakistan conception era, one is amazed at what that frail bodied individual managed to do...
i agree if u live in a country, work and pay taxes there it is urs. i also believe if u lose ur identity u r lost.
how the discussion turned from jinnah to shahnaz i dont know but i feel offended at the poison spewed by anonymous. how can y comment on a person's private & personal life if u dont know them? just like talking abt jinnah when u dont 'know' him.
signed,
TH
to balls!!
and a ballsy Armin!
welcome to non anonymity.... good to have you here. thanks for stopping by...
Geeeeeeez! whoa ...
ONE: Someone has to be "very iffy up there" if they do not realize that Jinnah's drinking and marrying a Parsi etc (not being a very good muslim in the normal sense of the term) is something I LIKE!!!!
TWO: Yeah "TH"! Right on! Maybe we should call the presidential candidates for dinner before we vote - after all how can we have an opinion of them if we don't "know" them!
THREE: By and large (YES! there is the minority exception) Pakistanis abroad are NO DIFFERENT from Pakistanis in Pakistan. Its ridiculous to think everyone there loves Pakistan enough to earn the right to criticism and we don't (there are plenty there who would just LOVE to leave...and plenty who might not but criticize out of hurt.....AND because they have eyes and half an effin brain in their heads)
So, people from Europe came to the American continents some 500 years ago and later, the immigrants, lost their identity and now they call themselves Americans. So may be they should call themselves " German Americans, Polish Americans, French Americans, Spanish Americans, Danish Americans....., instead of simply sticking to " Americans", right? They should be categorized as such on legal documents too, so they wont risk losing their "identity". Sounds like a big mess, and I d feel lost in that mess called cultural divide. So, I will stick to simply calling myself an American and pledge the allegiance to the country where I was born, raised, went to school, worked and payed taxes. Instead of believing in cultural divide, I believe in working towards a unified society where people of all races and cultures can call themselves "Americans" It might seem like a dream, but no harm in trying.
its a simple concept, and desis don't get it.
First, what, in the name of God (good movie, btw), is everyone's obsession with whether or not Jinnah drank alcohol? By sidelining all he did and focusing on this non-issue, you are trivializing all he did. Also, you really should reconsider your childish notion that in order to admire someone's accomplishments, one has to replicate his/her entire life, habits, and mistakes. Jinnah's alleged drinking does not bother me at all, not because I call myself "educated" and "liberal", but precisely because I call myself a practicing Muslim. If you were one yourself, you would know that mere mortals like us are not allowed to evaluate the character of people who are proven criminals. But I don't blame you for your ignorance; it's much more convenient and exciting to take the moral low road instead.
Second, why are so many people equating love for Pakistan with disrespect for America? If you're happy where you live now, then good for you. And if Pakistan-bashing (expats' favorite pastime) gives you pleasure, then you should do that as well; but be aware of the fact that when you belittle or misrepresent things which are of great importance to us, we're going to call you on your bullshit.
I don't know how relevant my comment to this discussion is, but this is to Armin, and a little thing I noticed. I am all for the concepts of tolerance, acceptance and a united world, but have you noticed the all the Americans you say call themselves just Americans, look similar, but we still have African Americans, Native Americans, and Asian Americans, in other words people who don't look American.
Why do you think this is?
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